Post-Game Grades: Warriors Out-Play the Pacers

All in all, winning two out of three games on a West Coast road trip isn’t bad. Roy Hibbert looked superb on a few of his post moves. Ian Mahimni might be pretty good. The bench (minus Tyler Hansbrough) cut a 16-point Warriors’ lead to 5 late in the third quarter. George Hill increasingly looks like a guy who knows when to distribute and knows when to call his own number.

Those are the positives. It’s not a short list.

But overall the offense wasn’t good and a really good Golden State scoring effort exploited a defense that made a lot of mistakes. It was a sloppy, lazy performance overall and I suppose we should hope that was more related to playing the second night of a back-to-back on Pacific time in Sacramento and Oakland.

There are worse things you can say about what happened on the court tonight, especially if you want to start digging into the defensive execution or Paul George’s entire game. But mainly this just looked like one of those games where Golden State seemed a lot more interested in playing a 10:30 EST tip in Oakland, California.

Here is how each guy played individually tonight. Agree? Disagree? Express your thoughts below in the comments or yell at me (@8pts9secs) or Tim (@TimDonahue8p9s) on Twitter.

David West - 37 MIN | 10-16 FG | 8 REB | 4 AST | 23 PTS

Had a few thoughtless, disgusting turnovers but was — like almost always now — the best Pacer on the court.

Paul George – 29 MIN | 0-7 FG | 5 REB | 4 AST | 0 PTS

I would look up whether or not this is his first scoreless game ever as a starter but that would take more effort than he put in this evening — which I already did while Photoshopping this new grade image for him. A zero. Like his point total. He also lost Klay Thompson several times.

Roy Hibbert - 32 MIN | 6-13 FG | 7 REB | 2 AST | 15 PTS

Made several really good moves on the block tonight, which could render one regular season loss meaningless if it becomes the start of a long-term trend. Blocked 5 shots.

George Hill - 37 MIN | 6-12 FG | 4-4 FT | 3 AST | 19 PTS

@TimDonahue8p9s: “I will now add George Hill to the list of Pacers worth taking seriously. (David West was getting lonely.)”

Lance Stephenson - 23 MIN | 3-4 FG | 4 AST | 8 PTS

I thought he played fairly well early. But then he didn’t get a single second of playing time in the fourth quarter as Vogel went with Sam Young in his place during the last-gasp comeback attempt with the starters. Odd.

Tyler Hansbrough - 11 MIN | 0-5 FG | 2 REB | 0 PTS

The umpteenth time in the last two weeks where I never once thought, “Man, they should get Tyler more touches.” He was perhaps-not-so-coincidentally not on the floor with the other bench guys (West was) when Indiana cut a 16-point deficit to 5.

Sam Young - 23 MIN | 2-6 FG | 0 REB | 1 AST | 5 PTS

I’m over watching him play basketball if we’re being honest.

Gerald Green - 20 MIN | 3-5 FG | 6 REB | 1 AST | 8 PTS

His best game in a while. Didn’t muck things up too much be just standing in the way, had one really nice drive, hit some threes and grabbed one really athletic offensive board.

Ian Mahinmi - 16 MIN | 2-3 FG | 6-8 FT | 4 REB | 10 PTS

Another excellent night for Ian. Played very well on both ends. Starting to look like an ideal backup center.

D.J. Augustin - 11 MIN | 2-3 FG | 1 REB | 1 AST | 4 PTS

Had that one excellent pick-pocket steal. Didn’t do much to make me squeamish.

Topics: Game Recap

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  • Jack Wright

    I have to say, Jared, you absolutely nailed it. I love the 0 for PG, as well as the explanations for Hill, Hansbrough, Young, and Augstin. I almost feel like I wrote this Post-Game Grades page.

  • Realist

    Lance was on fire early and benched accordingly. Didn’t score again (0/1). Nice.

  • Stretch Four

    Still winless against teams over .500… that’s how I knew they’d lose tonight. The lack of Lance is getting inexplicable at this point. Vogel needs to encourage him to attack the rim more often.

    • Joe Betz

      yeah it makes no sense…it’s as if he has no idea how to handle the minutes of Young, Stephenson, and Green…I would much rather have Lance shooting an open 3 or driving to the rim that Young when the Pacers needs points…

  • Rex

    Ian Manhimi has been really impressive lately

    • lil-bang

      This is what he looked like in the preseason that got me so excited.

  • NLP

    Have we even beat a winning team yet this far in? I know we’ve lost our far share to mediocre teams.

    David West is one quite the roll over the last 8 games he’s 66-for-113 58.4% after a brief funk over 3 games where he was just 10-for-37 27% and Hill has came along on the hot run with him the last 3 games.

    Roy had a nice 2nd half to save his night but PG is as lost as they come out there, having that big 3 point night was the worst thing to ever happen to him. He’s 13-for-45 28.9% with his % falling in each of the 4 games since 42.9, 38.5, 18.2 and about the only shots he makes are when he runs out on a rebound for a fast break basket. Paul started the Lakers game 2-for-4 so since then he’s 5-for-27 18.6% from the field and 1-for-16 6.2% from downtown.

    Mahinmi with 2 strong games out of 3 getting to the line at a high rate. I wish I knew what Frank see’s in Sam Young he’s his favorite player to use while he dumps all over Lance who he tends to absolutely forget about even when he’s playing good ball.

    The bench was good tonight besides Tyler who has clearly mentally check out with West’s increased PT killing his. He was cleanly in eff it mode taking all the shots he could force up, I will be shocked to see him have another good game unless he gets a long run in a blow out some time. He reminds me of a prisoner counting down the days to freedom.

    I would imagine once Danny comes back Tyler will never play again since we need to keep West getting his shots of Tyler’s 10-12 a game will go to DG33 as PF letting him have his time to jack up shots. The FO should see if Tyler has any ounce of Value in return either a late 2nd or a warm body and let Plumlee or Pendergraph after he heals fill in as PF until Danny takes the time and get more value out of them as well.

    These last few games look just like last years West Coast trip after Frank had the fix the offense practice on our long travel break that took him out of the offense and he was basically garbage for 90% of the rest of the year and playoffs. Between not playing with West who is the best player and gunning for his you can’t mark him down for the team worst +/- before the game starts for the extended future.

    I just hope he doesn’t hurt anyone in practice like he did last year when he got frustrated and carried over into games sending a couple guys to the locker room, would kill us to lose West without Danny and as hot as he’s been. I’m not sold we could win a single game without West right now.

  • NLP

    Its PG’s 3rd scoreless game as a starter, he’s had one in each of the last 3 years but this one was the most PT and shots he’s had in them.

  • NLP

    Player Efficiency Rating took more of a beating and now down to two guys above average players after Tyler has fallen from 16.26 to 14.30 on the Trip. West and Hill keep sky rocking and everyone sucks.

    20.56 West
    16.73 Hill
    14.46 Hibbert
    14.30 Hansbrough
    12.72 George
    10.60 Mahinmi
    10.55 Stephenson
    9.32 Green
    8.76 Augustin
    8.47 Young

  • NLP

    We need to approach West about an extension soon before he keeps playing himself out of our price range.

    • Realist

      I’m also kinda worried that he might bolt if we suck. Lock him up now.

    • Tim Donahue

      Since West was only signed to a 2-year contract, he cannot be extended. Only contracts of 4 or more years are eligible for extension. He will become an unrestricted free agent.

      • Joe Betz

        scary stuff…will the Pacers be able to keep him? My guess is that it will be up to him, but West wasn’t motivated by massive money to come to Indy in the first place…hopefully he will be happy finishing his career here.

        • NLP

          No doubt, it amazes me if you take a chance on a guy the league don’t protect its teams to be able to lock the guy up without him going back onto the market to be swiped up by a team with money after the small market team rehabbed his value.

      • NLP

        Wow that’s a stupid rule

        • lil-bang

          Another way for big market teams to dominate the league. Long extensive contracts kill the NBA. The only teams that can afford to get out of them are the high priced teams.

          The amount of different teams who have won a title in past 30 years (back to 1983 winners):
          MLB-18 (very suprising, but the reason MLB is still more viewed that NBA)

          This is the reason the NBA struggles. No one is interested because the way the league is setup great players don’t stick with low market teams, making the fan base weak in these areas. NBA forces teams to sign guarenteed 4 years contracts which normally become a bust.
          West perfect example, Pacers trying to do smart thing and sign him to short deal incase his he doesn’t come back from the knee injury. Now he has proven he is still an All-star and his knee is fine. But they don’t get first dibs to resign him due to that rule. This rule is only helpful for big market teams, big markets teams can afford to sign a bad 4yr guarenteed contract, and can also lure in the unrestricted free agents. Can’t wait for David Stern to be gone. Not sure if he made this rule(probably is a NBAPA driven rule). But something that should be fixed.

      • lil-bang

        Bet he is in purple and gold next year.

        • Jack Wright

          yuck i hope not. please not that team. but let’s worry about this season right now people, good grief

        • NLP

          I also see that happening if they find a taker for Pau.

    • Aaron Huston

      Should be trying to find a way to trade him. For once the Pacers should try to sell high on a guy. He’s going to sign somewhere else.

      • NLP

        I could get behind that if someone is willing to pay a kings ransom but I can also see keeping him and trying to make a run but with as poor as we have been playing with him playing lights out seems like it would take a ton to go with once Danny comes back and eats into West’s and Hill’s shots.

        • Jack Wright

          hmm. more like eats into other players shots (Hansbro, Young, Green, etc etc). which is a good thing.

          • Jack Wright

            Trade him???????????? We wouldn’t get near his value in return, considering his age. That would also be giving up on this season, which I’m not ready to do. We’re still 2 – 1 on this road trip. i’m actually pleased with that. And we’re right in the hunt for central division. Danny comes back in a couple months, and suddenly we can start making some noise again.

            West’s playing even better than last year. Hill is playing like an All-Star. Danny will put up 20 per game. Hibbert will eventually start to consistently play like the excellent center he’s come to be. Lance is showing that he has the potential to be a great 6th man option. Our bench is showing some signs that they might be an improvement from last season’s. I mean, I know we’re 8-9 right now, and I know we’ve had the easiest schedule so far in the league, but the fact is that we’re right in the hunt, and we have a starting lineup in place that will be more than competitive come playoff time, and we WILL make the playoffs.

            You wanna know what our 3 biggest liabilities are right now?? I’ll tell you: VOGEL, PAUL GEORGE, TYLER HANSBROUGH. Those are the problems we should be addressing. We sure as hell shouldn’t be considering trading our most valuable player during a season when our hopes should be to win an NBA championship.

          • Jack Wright

            trade paul george straight up for jj reddick. thats what i’d do. we need a SG who can flat out shoot, who will hustle, and who wont make dumb mistakes.

          • NLP

            JJ needs 12+ shots a game to be a game changer as well. If we did that we would need to add Tyler for McBob in there to add a body that is just going to pass to find enough shots.

          • Jack Wright

            we dont need him to be a game changer. that’s my point. we need him to hit shots when he’s open. he’d be a perfect 2 guard for our lineup

          • Jack Wright

            And Tyler doesn’t pass lol

          • Jack Wright

            oh that’s what u meant about tyler. see, i missed ur point there

          • NLP

            There is no way West and Hill are going to keep things up when Danny comes back and also see Danny put up 20 a game all while Roy still getting his.

            West is taking 4 more shots a game this year and over this hot run and his big games its an even higher clip, Hill is taking almost 5 more shots a game over last year and big Roy is .5 shots a game better than last year.

            All that’s without Danny’s 15.2 from last year and those shots were only good for 18.7 a game, the year before he was at 20.5 and took 15.9 but had the ball far more getting to the line. The last time he was a big scorer was 3 years ago when he took 18.4 shots a game.

            We only have one ball there is no way all 4 of them get their shots in Franks offense.

          • Jack Wright

            What? This isn’t the first time we’ll be experiencing a lineup of Hill, George, Granger, West and Hibbert. It worked pretty well for us last season. I may be misunderstanding your point.

            i think you and i have different philosophies. you seem to look at the numbers first, and make decisions based on those numbers. i like to make the decisions that make the most sense on the court, and let the numbers fall in place from there. But again, I may be missing your point. It just sounds to me like you’re not looking forward to Danny returning, because it will eat into West and Hill’s shots. That’s technically true, I guess, but it won’t be a bad thing. We’ll have a better offense! Like last year! I’m thinking that I must be missing your point….

          • NLP

            We don’t know how it worked honestly Hill didn’t take over until the last 2 weeks worth of games and the playoffs, and we played losing teams and Orlando without D12. Then in the Heat series we had to play them massive time and we still lost.

          • Jack Wright

            We had the 5th best record in the league! What do you mean we don’t know how it worked… We played great the entire last quarter of the season. We had the 2nd best last month of the season out of all teams, and Hill was starting for most of that time…Our starting lineup was just as efficient as the Heat’s starting lineup in the playoff series. And the truth is, we didn’t play any better than usual versus the Heat. We gave up a first half lead and lost the 1st game. We played pretty poorly the 2nd game but managed to scrape out a win. We had a nice performance at home in the 3rd game. Then we didn’t play very well the rest of the series.

          • NLP

            Hill was on the bench for most of that plus we had a better bench overall last year.

          • Jack Wright

            Hill was not on the bench for most of that. And it remains to be seen whether or not our bench was better last year. it was still bad last year. if mahinmi keeps playing well, and if Vogel stars to utilize Lance, our bench may actually be an improvement.

          • NLP

            Hill started just 9 games last year only 8 of those games had the real starting 5 and we played 1 team with a winning record in those games and we split with them. Then in the playoffs we beat Orlando with Howard and then got beat by the Heat.

            In the playoffs Danny took the most shots and shot the worst of all 4 players we’re talking about. 26 more than West and 69 and 70 more than Hill and Roy of the 4 Danny shot 5% than the lowest one of the group.

          • Jack Wright

            During the stretch of the year when the Pacers looked the most impressive and played their best, the lineup was Hill, George, Granger, West, and Hibbert.

            Here’s my point: It makes no sense whatsoever to worry that Granger, when he returns, might cause the team to do worse because he’ll take shots away from Hill and West. Here’s why:

            1. We’ve already seen that our offense runs very efficiently with a lineup of Hill, George, Granger, West and Hibbert. Maybe you didn’t watch the last couple months of last season, but the rest of us did.

            2. Right now, Hill and West are indeed carrying the load for us. But where has that taken us? We’re 8-9 and we’ve had the easiest schedule in the league so far. Continuing to rely on them to carry us when Granger returns is not only stupid, it simply makes no sense. It’s not getting the job done now, and it won’t then. It makes 100% more sense for us to return to the game plan that we had near the end of last season. We were a scary team then, and we can be one again.. But not if our strategy is to get Hill/West as many shots as possible.

          • Jack Wright

            Granger won’t put up 20 a game. I shouldn’t have said that. Probably be more like 17. Which is still fine for us. So I’m still not sure exactly what you’re saying

          • NLP

            Danny shot 15.2 shots a game last year the lowest in 4 years by a wide margin, That’s about what our bench takes most nights if its not a blow out.

            If Danny took all of Tyler’s time at the 4 that would open up just 4.3 shots a game and that’s inflated from before West started playing 36 a night and the few blowout games. His PER36 shots are .2 in front of Mahinmi for team low of qualified players and many of those are off his own work.

            Green hasn’t shot much more than 5 a night either after the early part of the season when he was taking just under 10 a game so there isn’t much there anymore either.

            Danny coming back will send Lance to the bench and Lance who is .1 behind Tyler and the same ahead of Mahinmi in Per36 shots so there isn’t much to take from him since he will basically take over Young’s when he goes back to the Bench unless Frank ices him for Lance like most crunch time situations.

            There is no way around Danny coming in and disrupting things even if we eliminate most all of our bench shots.

          • Jack Wright

            so what’s ur point? are u saying having Danny back will cause us to be worse? it seems like u think our road to victory comes from giving Hill or West as many shots as possible. I’d rather have Danny back so we have another nice scoring option, and so our offense can run smoothly again, like last year. Paul George is somewhat of a hindrance to the smoothness of our offense. i think jj redick (this is theoretical, obviously) would be a better fit. plus, he can shoot

          • NLP

            Our road to victory this year has been give them shots and having West as the go to guy, Danny is going to come back not in the best shape, so if he’s taking shots away from the guys who have been carrying us to wins we are going to suffer until they all figure out how to play together again.

          • Jack Wright

            And that road has proven to not work very well. But with Danny back, our offense will start to flow better.

          • NLP

            Except for the fact this is West’s team now and when Danny comes back he will want the ball to take the big shots. West has won over half our games for us coming up big.

            West has one less 30 point game in the last two weeks than Danny had all of last year in 62 games. A rusty out of shape DG is going to hurt us when he comes back and its going to take a good while until everyone gets use to playing with each other again.

          • Jack Wright

            First, even the rustiest, most out of shape version of Granger won’t hurt us very much, considering we suck so bad without him. And do you really think Danny’s gonna come back and immediately start demanding the ball? I really doubt it. He’ll let his game start to flow a little before he starts to shoot a lot. One of my favorite parts of last year’s Pacers is that you never knew who was going to come out and score the most each night. On any given night, it could be Granger, West, Hibbert, Hill, George, or Collison. Right now, it’s either West or Hill each night. With Granger back, we’ll start seeing more variance in scoring production and ultimately more Ws, simply because our offense will run more efficiently. More people will be scoring; not just West or Hill. Yeah, it might take a few games before we start seeing a lot of improvement from the team when Danny returns, but it’ll come, and it won’t take very long. Until then, we just have to hope some key players start improving/keep playing well (i.e. lance, mahinmi, hibbert, and PG).

            There’s a chance that by playoff time, we actually might be even better than last year. That depends on if Hibbert and PG ever start consistently playing well offensively (i think it might be a lost cause for PG), and how some of our bench players progress or decline as the season goes. But Hill and West are both without question playing better than last year. And I love West and am thankful we have him, but we aren’t going to go very far riding on his back. Getting Granger back will be huge for us.

          • NLP

            Yes Danny is going to want the ball its his team, the whole offense was build around the guy. There is only one ball and a everyone on our roster wants to shoot it, West is a pending FA and Danny is under contract for another year its his team and he’s taking the big shots.

          • Jack Wright

            I couldn’t disagree more.

          • Jack Wright

            We haven’t “built our team” around anybody. In fact that’s probably the most widely known characteristic of our current Pacer team. We have no superstar; no set-in-stone “go-to” guy. Rather, we have a lineup of several good-great players.. potential go-to guys, but no one player owns this team. Danny knows that as well as anybody.

  • Jack Wright

    did tyler flop during the game? warriors’ announcers said it was a clear flop, but i couldnt tell

    • Joe Betz

      I couldn’t either…we will know if a fine comes…

      • Jack Wright

        i’m guessing he did. i looked up “tyler hansbrough flop” on youtube, and there’s a video of him being “elbowed” by kyle singler. the elbow clearly hits him, but it’s also obvious that tyler greatly exaggerates its effect. it about makes me sick to even watch. at least when reggie flopped he didnt pretend like he was hurt. so sick of tyler

  • Joe Betz

    It is fun to watch Mahinmi play…just way more active on both sides of the ball than Lou and a more consistent offensive player than TH (will he ever make a 17 footer? Has that part of his game just evaporated?). Another positive, though–PG gave nothing offensively and the Pacers had a chance to win. A negative–Green literally scoring two points for the other team with a ridiculous goal tend…he does understand the rules of basketball, right?